Initially, our contact
with Thermaltake was via E-mail with a technician named Steven Wu. We
informed Steven of the problem and how we found it and this is the reply we
received:
From: Steven
Wednesday, April 16, 2003
11:53 AM
Subject: Thermaltake
Hi,
Please send us back the miss-placed firewire cable (whole
set) and we will be investigating this problem immediately.
Best Regards,
Steven
Support assistance
Thermaltake
626-968-9189
My reply:
DATE: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:04:43 -0700
TO: Steven
SUBJECT: RE: Thermaltake
Steven -
I don't understand what you mean. What cable do you want me to send back and where do you want me to send it?
Do you want just the cable that connects from the motherboard to the I/O interface at the top of the case?
My wife and I picked up these cases at two different FunKey
Computer locations, so I'm relatively certain this problem affects a lot
more cases than just the ones we purchased from two different stores. It
might be "too little too late" to deal directly with the end user (me) to
investigate this issue - especially if we determine that other stores are
still selling this same case with this same wiring problem. I'm going to go
back to the store where I purchased my case from and me & Jason, the store
manager, are going to see if this problem still exists on the latest order
of Xaser III cases they received. If the problem does still exist, then
there's no need for me to send anything back to you, since obviously many
more cases (and customers) are affected by this problem. If the problem
does NOT exist on the cases they currently have in stock, then we'll proceed
once I better understand what responsibility Thermaltake plans to take
regarding the damage done to my equipment.
In either event, I still have two damaged motherboards, 1
dead Creative Jukebox 3 and a dead 40G 1394 drive to get "dealt" with, and
I'm extremely reluctant to send back my only evidence of a manufacturing
defect to the company which made the product. In the event Thermaltake
refuses to take responsibility for this flaw, I'm going to need this cable
first as proof that the cable is in fact wired wrong, and second, as proof
that I was not responsible for the damage done to the above mentioned
devices. I am more than happy to provide ANY pinouts or any other
information you might require, including very detailed photographs of the
cable or whatever you think you need, but for my protection - at least until
I can get a better idea of how many people this affects, I need to keep this
cable for my own legal protection.
Please let me know what additional information you require.
I'll contact everyone on the To: and CC: line when I get together with Jason
at FunKey computers.
Following this reply
and after discussing Steven's request with my wife, I contacted Steven on
the phone to tell him we thought it was unnecessary for us to send our cable
since he should have hundreds available to him to test, but we would agree
to mail it to him since we still had my wife's cable which had the same
defect. I mailed the cable back to Thermaltake the following morning
and awaited his reply:
From: Steven
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: IMPORTANT - Wiring Defect on Xaser3 ThermalTake
Case on the top 1394 Firewire connector
Importance: High
Hi,
Here are what our technician has found for the IEEE cable and
you may find them interesting. Basically they tested it and find out no
problem with the firewire cable you sent back at all and concluded this is a
installation error.
Let us know what you think and please provide us address to
return the original 1349 cable.
Steven
This is the point I
started to become very frustrated with Thermaltake. After
demonstrating this problem to more than 20 people, there was absolutely no
way this was an "Installation Error", especially since I provided
Thermaltake with a test procedure that completely eliminated that
possibility. For the first time since this fiasco started, Thermaltake gave
me the impression that they were going to try to ignore the problem. My
next two replies were less polite illustrating my frustration:
That's fascinating, Steven, because the tests I did that
prove the cable's wired wrong (or that there's a problem with the circuit
board on the top of the case) do not require anything to be installed
(by me or anyone else) which eliminates the possibility of an "Installation
Error" on my part. The problem was witnessed by technicians at 2 different
stores and several other people. I sent you the testing procedure I used,
and that procedure doesn't require me or anyone else to install anything to
test for this problem. Did you actually try my testing procedure? You
don't need a motherboard or an external CD-RW drive to test the problem. In
fact, the motherboard adds an additional layer of testing that would require
verification of correct installation. My testing method does not. There is
also the possibility that the cable's NOT wired wrong - and that there's a
problem with the I/O header that it's attached to at the top of the case.
Since I didn't send you that part, how can we know for sure where the
problem is?
Is there a Thermaltake representative in this area that you
trust to observe this problem locally? I'm more than willing to provide a
live demonstration of this problem to anyone you like.
I need you to use my testing procedure detailed below and
tell me what your results are. I don't care about your motherboard or any
other devices - I only care about your case and what your multimeter tells
you when you follow my testing procedure.
I once again verified the wiring I sent you with the wiring
found on a brand-new case at Fun-Key Computer store in
Bellevue Washington, so I'm
certain my information's correct. However, I'm not 100% sure if the
problem's actually with the cable OR the 1394 header on the top of all of
the cases I've tested...and you can't be either.
Would it be possible for you to send me the schematics for
the top circuit board? That would help out a great deal!
So in closing, my question to you is as follows:
When you plug an external 1394 powered hub into the top
connector of the Xaser III case, what voltage AND polarity do you measure on
the VG and VP pins on the cable that attaches to the motherboard? There are
only two possible answers.
Thanks,
I never got them to run
my testing procedure or give me an exact reply to my E-mail. After some
further thought and discussion about his reply with my wife and friends, I
realized something I completely overlooked and sent this additional reply:
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 1:46 AM
To: Steven Wu, Weller Chen
Subject: RE: IMPORTANT - Wiring Defect on Xaser3 ThermalTake
Case on the top 1394 Firewire connector
Steven and Weller -
One additional thing came to our attention when we were
looking at the pictures you sent regarding the cable problem - I don't know
how I overlooked this today when I spoke with you on the phone... As we
discussed on the phone, your technicians didn't follow the testing procedure
I described, and instead decided to connect the cable up to a Abit AT7-Max2
Mainboard and then use a Yamaha CD-RW device to "test" the power pins on the
1394 port.
The test they performed "passed" with no problems, and we
believe we know why: Your technicians didn't use a bus-powered 1394 device,
they used a Yamaha CRW-F1ZDX external CD-RW drive which uses an external AC
power supply. The test device they used is not bus powered
and therefore obviously can't be used to test the 1394 bus power supply from
the connector since those pins aren't even connected to the device.
Although I don't have a CRW-F1 device, I do have about 15
other 1394 devices which also require external AC power and none of them
rely on or require 1394 bus-supplied power.
To find a power-related problem, your technicians have to
specifically test for a power-related problem. As I mentioned in my
previous e-mails, the TPA and B pins ARE correctly wired which means that
the external CD-ROM drive they used would have been detected just fine -
since the device they used was not bus-powered.
If your technicians want to try their specific testing method
again, then they must use a 1394-powered device such as a small, external
hard drive or a Firewire video camera. Here are several links to
bus-powered 1394 devices:
http://www.evertech.com/category.cfm?Category=37
http://www.evertech.com/category.cfm?Category=38
http://www.cwol.com/firewire-cameras/pyro-webcam.htm
http://www.psism.com/fwreader.htm
http://store.yahoo.com/wiebetech/ultragb1.html
http://store.yahoo.com/wiebetech/firkey4.html
I'll be on the road heading for
California starting
Saturday, May 3rd. I'll contact you by phone when I get an idea of when
I'll be stopping by your office to demonstrate this problem to and your
technicians. I'm bringing my wife's cable which is configured exactly like
mine was. I also stopped by Computer Stop today and had them open up
another brand-new factory sealed & shrink-wrapped Xaser III case so that I
could test their cable. It also failed the test.
Until then, please feel free to contact me by phone with your
technician's new test results when they conduct their test using a
bus-powered 1394 device. I look forward to meeting you next week.
Kind regards,
Per the above
E-mail, my friend and I drove down to the Thermaltake office in Los Angeles,
CA on May 7th, 2003.
We met with Steven Wu and demonstrated the
problem to him in person using his Xaser III cable on the exact same
case Thermaltake technicians had previously used. After
explaining the operation of a Multi-meter to him, he acknowledged the
problem and said he would make the effort to contact Thermaltake
headquarters in Taiwan. We also showed him why their testing procedure,
which used a non-bus powered device, wouldn't work to demonstrate the
problem. We explained to him that he needed to obtain and test a
bus-powered device (like a laptop 1394 hard drive) using their test system and attempt to reproduce the
problem. Following that meeting he said we should hear something back
from Taiwan the following week. That week came and passed with no updates.
On July 1, 2003, Weller Chen
contacted me via telephone to discuss the issue.
Thermaltake finally
officially acknowledged the issue and told me that they are working to
isolate which date codes are affected:
From:
Weller Chen
Sent: Tue 7/1/2003 4:56 PM
Cc: Tt - Steven Wu
Subject: Thermaltake Date Code
Hi,
We really appreciate your help in locating this batch of cases. The
date
code should be located right besides the Hard Drive cage. Please see the
attached image.
Best regards,
Weller Chen
Product / OEM
Thermaltake Technology USA Inc.
Tel: (626) 968-9189
Fax: (626) 968-7659
URL: http://www.thermaltake.com
http://www.bluetake.com
Final Update 12/2005 -
Thermaltake never did "fess-up" to how many cases were produced with the
defect and I had heard that it had become harder and harder to get them to
respond to customer complaints regarding damage caused by this defect. If you have a Xaser III and you are able to successfully test your case using the
Test
Procedure on this web site, please continue to the What To Do
page. As of 12/2005, I have archived this site and it is now for
reference purposes only. As such, I am no longer offering assistance
to people with questions about this problem or the test procedure I have
described. I have tried to provide you with as much information as
possible regarding this problem, and I hope it helps you.
Finally, I want to remind everyone
that although the manufacturer is certainly responsible for selling
defective cases, you could save yourself a lot of time and aggravation by
testing your cases yourself before attaching any valuable devices to your
system - and this includes EVERY case, not just the ones affected by this
problem. Never trust the OEM to follow the
specification correctly!! Just because a specification
exists does NOT mean that the OEM followed it exactly, nor does it mean
that they test every single case they manufacture to verify it conforms to the
required specifications. If you think you have this defect, then
you have to test for it yourself.
